fox news' alan colmes interviews corporal matt sanchez, the latest in a never-ending line of fallen conservative heros, who was toppled from his poignantly brief pedestal after being outed as a former porn film actor and male prostitute:
alan:
... as a great american, and embraced by conservatives because you were taking on those anti-war protestors —
matt:
i dunno about that. i would say i was just doing, i spoke out against something that —
alan:
you spoke out and they embraced you and invited you to the conservative political action conference over the weekend and you —
matt:
had me on fox news, several people did.
alan:
that's right, and thank you for coming here tonight.
matt:
my pleasure to be here.
alan:
and then it just comes out over the weekend that you, uh, you were outed as, uh, having done gay porn ... ?
matt:
outing is one thing ... i wouldn't call it that ... uh ... yeah, it came out —
alan:
it's not an outing?
matt:
i was very straightforward — well, how can you out something that's already out there. there's nothing more [ public? ] than that.
alan:
right, but i mean they, in general, but the people who were embracing you, and calling you, telling everyone how great you were because you were doing all these wonderful things for the troops didn't know about your past.
... because matt, and i'm just guessing here, maybe if they did know, they wouldn't have put you up on stage with them ...
matt:
that's true, i've never walked around with a "scarlet p" on my forehead.
alan:
right, but — go ahead.
matt:
in no way did i try to hide it, so when it did come out — and it came out rather viciously — i felt i had to defend myself right away, and that's what i did.
alan:
well, you defended yourself and you acquited yourself well in that you were honest about it. you didn't duck it —
matt:
absolutely.
alan:
— you didn't deny it, you didn't say it never happened —
matt:
sure.
alan:
— you didn't say those pictures on the internet are not me —
matt:
absolutely not!
alan:
— as some people have done.
... because lying is not an option when you're so totally, totally busted that pants have been known to burst into flame ...
matt:
look, i wrote an op-ed piece for salon.com and a couple of other people have picked up on it as well. the conservatives that i've met, really, have been the most warm people and i mean they haven't walked away from me at all. it really has been the liberal people that have been really the harshest with me.
alan:
how are they harsh with you?
matt:
harsh with everything. i've been called everything today and the past few days i gotten over 3,000 emails from people with this, just invective that you wouldn't believe.
alan:
well, uh —
matt:
you get that stuff ...
alan:
i do get it, and i get it from both sides, but —
matt:
[ laughs ]
alan:
but tell us what happened? first of all a number of years ago, and how many years ago was it you did gay porn?
matt:
it was 15 years ago, and it just wasn't gay porn, by the way, uh, but it was 15 years ago.
alan:
what else did it ... what else was it?
matt:
it was more than that, it was, but it was more than porn.
alan:
did you work as a male prostitute?
matt:
that as well, yeah.
alan:
a male prostitute.
matt:
this was one of the worst periods in my life.
alan:
now when you say "15 years ago" —
matt:
15-plus years ago.
alan:
"-plus years ago," and i did a little web —
matt:
sure.
alan:
i had to go to gay porn sites to do my homework for the show!
matt:
yeah, those are some of the worst sites, they've been really harsh on me.
alan:
but it turns out that you had an adver — you advertised in the advocate here in new york city for your massage services as recently as three years ago.
matt:
no ... there's no such thing as an advocate here in new york city.
... cap'n, evasive maneuver number one!
alan:
yeah. there's a, there's a magazine called the advocate, your phone number's on it ... your picture ...
matt:
the number you contacted me on?
... evasive maneuver number two!
alan:
yes.
matt:
no.
alan:
and it says that you're available for, uh, massage.
matt:
massage, yeah. yeah, no, sorry —
alan:
and it was in november of, ah, 2003.
matt:
no — yeah, i hear you, uh, no.
alan:
well, i can show you the link —
matt:
sure.
alan:
— it's there.
matt:
give it to me. send it over, that's — that's fine. i mean, anything, i'll admit, i'll own up to it. that's not what the issue at hand is.
ow, a hit! um, let's try evasive maneuver number three ... retreat!
alan:
but i understand. i, i —
matt:
but those movies were —
alan:
you've been — you've been very candid so far —
matt:
yes, yes, i want to be as candid as possible.
alan:
you've been saying that it's been "15-plus years ago," and it seems it was a lot less than that.
matt:
1990 up through — throughout the mid-90s, 1993-94.
alan:
so that's how long ago it was?
matt:
yeah — well, we're talking about the films.
alan:
what about gay, y'know, out — massage stuff.
matt:
anything else, gay, massage stuff — i am a licensed massage therapist.
... evasive maneuver number four ...
alan:
and you cater to gay men.
matt:
no — not exclusively.
alan:
are you gay?
matt:
no. absolutely not.
alan:
you're not gay?
matt:
and i'll be very candid about that.
... because, y'know, someone less candid and upstanding would actually lie about being heterosexual ...
matt:
but again, this is a, this is a losing, it's a losing argument. and i say one thing and the other side says another —
alan:
well, i'm not arguing —
matt:
fine.
alan:
— i'm just trying to establish, y'know, a, i mean why would you — now i don't care whether you're gay or not — i mean, i pro- gay rights —
matt:
i, i agree, i don't care who's gay either by the way —
alan:
— and, and i'm just trying to get to the truth —
matt:
absolutely.
alan:
you were ... marketing yourself as a masseur for gay men and doing gay films and you said you were a prostitute for gay men, so, i mean ... how, why would you —
matt:
yeah, there's a different word for that today, but i ...
... because "gay" after all is just another label ...
alan:
hustler, whatever ...
... um, that wasn't the label i had in mind ...
matt:
i own up to all that stuff.
alan:
why would you do that if you're not gay?
matt:
i think if you ... people listening probably don't realize it, but those who are in the know, know that this isn't as cut and dry as black and white. there are lots of shades in between, and lots — especially a lot of the clients —
alan:
right.
matt:
— weren't, wouldn't have considered themselves gay. i dunno if this conversation is what you wanna have but —
alan:
yeah — no, no, i definitely want to have this conversation.
... no, dammit! you're not supposed to want this conversation!
matt:
oh great. well, in that case, the majority of the clients weren't openly gay. a lot of them were married and had, i mean, really wasn't, it really wasn't as cut and dry as, people who came to me at that time really wouldn't have considered themselves as gay.
alan:
right, but you were not servicing women, you were servicing men.
matt:
um, there were those as well ...
... hmmm, did that last answer not come out strong enough ... ?
matt:
uh, absolutely! i mean there were definitely tons of women!
... ok, much, much better ... whew, that was close!
alan:
and you took ads in gay publications —
matt:
as well as, as well as —
alan:
— in order to appeal to gay men.
matt:
— as well as other publications.
alan:
right. but you've never been gay, you never personally —
matt:
yeah, it's not something, it's not how i would describe myself, frankly, and i understand that some people have a problem with that.
alan:
i don't have a problem, i, i have a problem —
matt:
no, not you —
alan:
— i'm, i'm just trying to establish the truth —
matt:
— members of the audience.
alan:
well, i'm sure that there are — look, here's what, one of the things i think you've been criticized for is that, uh — in fact i'm trying to go there right now, something called —
matt:
one of those blogs?
alan:
no, i'm trying to see, there's this ad, there's something called "masseur-finder" with your picture on it ...
matt:
yeah, i've seen that. i've seen that. i've been getting calls in the past couple of weeks on that and i am not running that ad.
... because someone less upstanding would deny that that was their picture ...
alan:
right. and there's an ad in the advocate and i'm trying to come up with a date for that which is a new york publication ...
matt:
great.
alan:
i'm sorry, it's the new york blade, forgive me.
matt:
the new york blade.
alan:
the new york blade.
matt:
another one ...
alan:
and that ad was from november 19th, 2004.
matt:
sure. lemme tell —
alan:
an ad for you.
matt:
lemme tell you something really interesting —
alan:
not the — let me correct myself, it was the new york blade, which is the gay publication, but not the advocate.
matt:
ok, the new york blade. great. fair enough.
alan:
all right.
matt:
um, i've seen, i was in australia one time, and i saw someone advertising ... using my picture.
alan:
right.
matt:
anyone who knows that whole —
alan:
but it's got your phone number on it, too.
... retreat! retreat! retreat!
matt:
any, uh, that's which —
alan:
your current phone number.
matt:
that's not my current phone number.
alan:
ok, well, i'll show it to you —
matt:
i mean i've had, i've had my current phone number for about, a year.
alan:
ok, well, i'll, i'll show you —
matt:
ok, no problem. look, i own up to all that stuff. i just want to make that straight. i've been, for the past week i've had, i've had people calling me about this, and apparently someone has placed an ad, just recently.
alan:
alright. well, this was three years ago. well, i'll show you the link when, during the commercial —
matt:
i'm talking about just yesterday.
... oh please, god: tell me he hasn't checked up on that one, too ...
alan:
really.
matt:
yeah, just yesterday. i mean, this isn't, this isn't, there's something going on —
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